Croydon Westfield and Hammerson shopping centre 'could ease Purley Cross traffic'

“Presuming it is geologically appropriate, even just a southbound tunnel of two lanes running from the junction of Purley Way/Pampisford Road to the part of Brighton Road alongside Tesco would solve the biggest congestion issue of the southbound A23 traffic currently filing through traffic lights by Pizza Express.

If Hindhead/the A3 can be afforded a 4 mile dual tunnel construction masterpiece, then Croydon/Purley/the A23 are likewise worthy of a logical 450 metre improvement project.”

“If Ringway 3 had been built the M23 would have been extended as far as it and that's where the junction would be, not with the Purley Way which would have been left much to its own devices.”

“nickcvr - while you're right about when it was built, the Purley Way would have definitely been a part of the London Ringways plan. If you check here - http://tinyurl.com/au74rbz - the Ringway 3 would have crossed it. Because the Ringways weren't built in its entirety (although the M25 in parts were originally a part of two of the Ringway routes), you now have a lot of traffic that would have exited on Ringway 3 but instead is dumped in the middle of Purley.”

“Purley Way was built in the twenties as a Croydon by-pass and has nothing to do with the sixties Ringway scheme.

Purley Cross isn't the major bottleneck. Coming from the Coulsdon even in the morning peak as I do regularly the tailback is caused by the Stoats Nest Road/Smitham Downs junctions and then the Old Lodge Lane lights. Once past all this you get a fairly clear run onto the Purley Way, just a couple of pauses for the various lights. Those continuing up the Brighton Road will experience far greater delays once they get towards the bus garage and beyond into the town centre than they did at Purley

There not much to be gained by rearranging Purley Cross. It's about as good as it will ever be. and any tinkering could quite easily make it worse. The bit which does need sorting out is Fiveways and the mess that is the A232 junction by Waddon Station.”

“Mark2 - Purley Cross was a nightmare BEFORE Tesco was built there. Tesco didn't create the problem. The problem with the area is purely down to major traffic being fed into the area - no amount of rearranging the junction will ever alleviate that. Major traffic being fed into the area was caused by decisions back in the 60s, 70s and 80s with regard to the London Ring Roads, which saw partial dual carriageways built (Purley Way) and major routes being directed in the direction of Purley in anticipation of the Ring Roads being built - problem is that the planned Ring Roads didn't happen and as a result the major routes continue to funnel all the traffic into an area ill equipped to cope instead of funnelling it into the dual carriageways/motorways that should have been built (I say "should have" from a traffic perspective, not from a personal standpoint).

At the end of the day, the most logical thing to do is to simply remove the traffic to an appropriate area, such as around Purley (through fields, etc.). Obviously this is easier said than done and now there is very little options available considering that nowadays there is so much red tape with regards to where to build new roads and the fact that the old designs for a new major road were rejected in a time when there was far less red tape!

The suggestion for an underpass is probably the only realistic option, but the thing is that underpasses are very expensive to build and the deeper you get the more it costs to build. You also have issues with how to build it e.g. the Hatfield tunnel was achieved by levelling the ground above (lots of residential houses were simply removed), then putting in a tunnel into a trench and then covering. Deeper tunnels would be extremely expensive. Who is going to pay for this expensive tunnel just to bypass traffic in a town? I would say it's very very unlikely to happen. So we're stuck with what is there now.”

“@swsquires:

I'm well aware the Westfield money is private money. My problem is with The Council/ Torys claiming a successful investment of Bucketloads Of Cash, bigger than the cuts, and then trying to dress that up as Croydon recovery.

A bunch of new shops won't change much. We need soooo much more. We already have 'starting jobs' around here. What we need is the next tier up, so that all these people starting out and learning stuff stay in Croydon ( we retain their skills, rather than them studying here & then leaving ).

And I think you'll find Labour is very much in favour of Investment to build infrastructure and jobs. It's the Torys that aren't.”

“john-a: the developers want to attract shoppers from outside of the borough and the prosperous areas south of Croydon all the way down to the coast. A problem with using public transport is that if you buy bulky items they are difficult to lug around on trains and buses. I like going to Westfield Stratford, obviously by public transport, but just for enough I can reasonably carry back with me.

In general terms, Purley cross needs improving. I can't see how Cllr Speakman can suggest it is only congested at rush hour, it is snarled up all the time it seems to me. The reason? Tesco's. Ever since Tesco's was built, driving around Purley has been a nightmare. Short of doing away with Tesco's (unrealistic) an underpass seems to be the only option. But I can't see that happening. Imagine the complaints of the residents groups! No easy answer.”

“Chris,
I am not sure that you understand the difference between public and private money. The council cuts are in public money, a result of the recession, global economic crisis and huge deficit.

The 1bn for the shopping centre is money from Westfield and Hammerson, private money. This is new money coming in to the area, that will create jobs, improve a run down centre and hopefully create more of an environment akin to Canary Wharf shopping centre (as opposed to run down Whitgift).

Yes it is true that the jobs will likely be at the low end of the pay scale, but to be honest you have to start somewhere. I see little point in building shiny new office blocks when right now central Croydon has little to offer in the way of facilities.

As for the comment of low aspiration I think again you have missed the point. This is not a Croydon Council project, they just provided some facilitation. This was a Whitgift Foundation / Westfield initative. The aspiration from both was to create a shopping hub for South London and obviously make a lot of money in doing so.

I do not think anyone should complain at all about private companies investing their money in our area. As for government spending (local and national) I think we have to accept that there will be no increases for many years to come, whoever is in power.”

“Correction:

'Basically Croydon has taken £1/2b in cuts due to Conservative decisions. £350m in Building Schools for the Future money, about £30m in LEGI ( business regeneration ) money, £110m-ish in Council Grant cuts, and also no Enterprise Zone. So all our local small businesses and schools have basically just taken a kicking.'

Sorry, just put my contacts in so it was all a bit fuzzy for a mo' ;)”

“Why isn't this Section 106 / CIL money going into public transport improvements instead, rather than increasing net fossil fuel demands?”