Croydon isn't middle-class enough for us, says Allianz Global Assistance chairman

“We moved from Brixton to Norbury 7 years ago, and have to confess we are seriously considering returning. We are now tired of waiting to see what north of the borough has to offer. Brixton Clapham, Crystal Palace, or East Dulwich seem to be the nearest place to find a decent restaurant, bar, decent butcher fishmonger, or boutique.

Class has nothing to do with it, sad to say, it's the lack of regeneration that's bringing Croydon to it's knees. 7 years ago we thought within 5 years we would see a change, sorry to say, it has got worse, I don't even bother to visit Norbury High Street.The only good thing in Croydon is transport to assist you getting out and going elsewhere if you don't feel like driving.”

“Considering a lot of people who work in Croydon (including many at Allianz) are not actually from Croydon nor live in the town, he's talking nonsense.

If he had said that potential staff are put off from working at Allianz because of Croydon's reputation, then I would agree. But to say that it's the middle class drift from the town makes no sense. I worked in Croydon for many years and people I worked with lived in Brighton, Three Bridges, Reigate, Horsham, Orpington, Guildford, Crawley, East Grinstead, Godstone and many other places.

Personally with Nestle moving out and others considering doing the same for financial and expansion reasons, I think he's just trying to get a better deal for Allianz in the area. I think people in Croydon, should be more concerned about what he is thinking and not what he is saying. I'm sure the council have already been in talks about what the Allianz boss really wants. And I bet its all about money and not his worries over the middle class drift.”

“Well - I am not working class. My grandfather was working class as a child, then middle class later. Why? He was the son of a carpenter, but later became Chairman of the Board of a small shipping company. I live in a tiny house, but am middle class. It's not about money. And - Chris Wilcox, it is not outdated from 30 years' ago. I was interviewed for a book in 1994 about class and also was on the Esther Rantzen programme that year. They defined class as one's education, profession, and tastes. If you would rather buy 5 bottles of cheap plonk (working class) to one bottle of really good wine (middle class).”

“@croydonx sadly Finance is very different, it is all about cost control with training (in most cases) being something offered on a limited basis to pretend that development is important to the firm.

Ultimately this has created a cycle of people moving every 2-3 years with no loyalty on either side from employee or employer. Other than firms that are strong in graduate intakes (my current and previous firms being a prime example) training is more about meeting regulatory requirements.

@purleymag nice to hear we have some graduates that have moved to Croydon. After 15 years of working in the city (Investment Mgt and Management Consulting) I have met graduates from all over the UK and the world. As yet, not a single one has moved to Croydon with the majority settling in Clapham, Wimbledon, Putney, Lewisham and now even out Canary Wharf way. I guess it depends where you work, but with the great transport links in to London, I would have expected to have worked with at least one graduate living in a CR postcode by now (out of hundreds I have worked with).

As well as looking after our 'own', i.e. local people, we also need to attract young professionals who will spend money in bars, restaurants and shops.”

“Needing to leave town because he can't find suitable recruits?

Surley this sounds more like a case of a poor staff planning/staff development strategy by the company (or even industry) concerned?

I'd be curious to hear how many school leavers / graduates this company has taken on and put at least some effort into their training and development as a future pool of talent for the positions he's struggling to fill over the last 8+ years.

If it is the case insufficient effort was made in this area, and his competitors were all mostly doing the same intending simply to poach staff trained by others, that quickly becomes a vicious zero sum game and as your existing workforce ages/retires/moves on you find yourself in trouble as above.

Unfortunately I'm not so sure relocating will necessarily solve the issues.

My field of work woke up to a skills shortage on the horizon about a decade ago now, recognised it as a serious threat, and has been pouring resources into encouraging and developing a future skilled talent pool since (Engineering). Finance/Insurance may be slightly less specialised but is by no means immune to the issues of an aging and de-skilling workforce biting in certain areas and levels.”

“Scratching my head here@swsquires on one point. I am a graduate and moved to Croydon and know many others who have done so (and not just to Purley, but West Croydon, North Croydon etc). It may be that he is actually talking about what you say, but if so I think he's put it in a rather ham-fisted way.”

“I guess this all comes down to the type of person that he wants to recruit. Is he looking for school leavers, A-Level students or graduates. If you take London and the city most firms recruit graduates, the majority of whom move to London. Sadly, I have not met a single graduate in all my years of working who has moved to London and Croydon, in fact most turn their nose up when I say that is where I live.

There is a simple issue that Croydon has an issue with the outside perception. Lets not hide away from the fact. Whilst I agree with all the statements that Croydon is a great place (I have lived here most of my life) very few people want to live here. That needs to change and I hope this mooted transformation comes off - I am still expecting for one a protracted legal battle between Hammerson and Westfield with no progress for several years (and another opportunity wasted).

As for this company, they are not in London, so they want a cheap outer London suburb with access to suitable (and yes Chris, cheap) employees. If they were to move, they could go to many places further out with cheaper rent, rates etc and just as many people to have access to.

I think we need to consider the agenda behind this article. Maybe he was just asked and said, yes we are finding it harder to recruit, maybe this is because people are leaving the area (the information his team are telling him). Then again, this could be posturing to say to Croydon council, "what are you going to do for us, do you want us to leave like Nestle?"

One of my friends is a policeman, he recently told me that he is saving as he is desperate to leave Croydon as it is now a dump. Lets accept that many people have that view and it is down to all of us, as individuals, the council, business and the government to change that. As for this article, I am not reading too much in to it.

Ultimately Croydon needs to be seen as a nice place to live, that is what needs to change. When I start hearing that all our graduates (or even one) lives in Croydon or has even visited I will see progress. A number go to Brixton for example for various things, that would not have happened 10 years ago. It shows you how things can change for the better...

Forever living in hope
Simon”

“Quite simply, outdated old rubbish. It should be about skills and not class. And comments like this do not really seem to be on message with all the diatribe which we hear endlessly being spouted about "aspiration" (which I deeply believe in, personally, but which for others seems to be simply a way for them to mask their true beliefs that the "working class" should remain in their place.) Oh, and before anyone jumps to conclusions I am not a socialist or communist, just someone who believes in everyone being given an opportunity.”

“Very well put JamesCR0, it is a rediculous and wholly uneeded comment to make about our town. I also don't understand on what (if any) facts he is making this assumption on. Large swathes of Croydon still remain highly affluent as they have always been, and the town's catchment with it's fantastic transport links means Croydon has the potential to attract a wealth of talented staff from far and wide. Also what's the alternative? Moving to a nearby suburb such as Bromley or Sutton isn't going to change this, it will just limit their catchment area for their staff as their transport links are poorer than Croydon's, and if they moved into London (14 mins up the road) then they would be paying twice as much rent and still probably attracting similar staff.

It is frustrating that some companies seem to think now is a good time to think about leaving Croydon, as even with all the bad events that have happened over the past two years (such as the riots, nestle leaving and allders closing), I really believe that Croydon is now finally on the verge of a huge renaissance that will happen over the next 5-10 years, you only have to look around town to see things already happenning (Saffron Square, the new council HQ, East Croydon Bridge, new offices and refurbishments, plus upgrades to the public realm such as by the Fairfield). If Ruskin Square starts on site next year, which it is widely expected will now happen, and the battle for the Whitgift gets sorted out within the next 6-12 months, then Croydon will really start changing for the better. After all the false starts and broken promises, I genuinely think this time around things will be different.”

“@LaFantastica: That stopped being accurate 30 years ago.

I'm a medical professional ( manager-type ), and I am very much working class.


This man should be judging based on skill. Pure and simple. And he is not.”