“minniemouse , I think they are writing a book,suggested title 'LAFANTASTICA in Wonderland'”

“Has any of you thought about writing a book, just a thought. :)”

“Urbanedout below makes an interesting argument which may be applicable if the details were accurate. However, they are not. Urbanedout states "If this tower were ever to come into being, it'll offer jobs for another 10000?" What Urbanedout has not realised is that this is not an office development and that the 55 storey tower is designed to be residential and not office use. It will provide just over 400 new high quality homes. Furthermore, on the Cherry Orchard Gardens site, 72 new good quality affordable homes will also be built. Urbanedout also makes the point that, in his opinion, "City jobs will stay where they are now; in the city." He may well be right in that but these city jobs will still need to employ people and these people will need to live somewhere and the new residential tower would be a perfect base from which to commute into the City, taking advantage both of Croydon's enviable transport links to the City and the lower cost of house prices Croydon offers. There is a small element of office space proposed by the application elsewhere, but aimed at start-up small business which would provide flexible office space more suited to smaller companies' demands and designed to meet modern demands, rather than the old office stock Croydon has to offer. The third element to Menta's proposal is for a new four star boutique style hotel, sitting almost immediately on the busiest transport hub in the South of England, betwixt London and Gatwick, which could not be more ideally positioned. It would be difficult to argue that this will not create a mass of new employment potential which could easily be taken up by local people. Rather than creating a "third world war zone" this application could breathe new life into Cherry Orchard Road and actually save the struggling shopping parade, and create a vibrant and sustainable front door for Addiscombe. Urbanedout may be right about the Stanhope Schroder site relying on a take-up of too much new office space which is why, of the two applications, the Menta application will be preferable by far for the benefit of Croydon as a whole.I would like to see both proceed but if it was to be a choice between the two it seems compelling that the Menta application is by far the better of the two.”

“Thanks to CrossRdRes for responding to my comment, however, I think you've passed over my real point. I believe that successive Croydon councils have become obsessed with the idea that ambitious expansion is the only way forward for the town. That idea, I think, is something that they got locked into because it was successful in the 1950s and 1960s; but the national economic model was very different then. The UK is now in period of economic decline that will probably last for decades. It won't be as sharp and ruinous as it will be in other parts of the world, but it will be experienced as a gradual deterioration in living standards for most of us. Investment will consequently decline everywhere. Organisations will focus in on themselves and not risk the 'new'. City jobs will stay where they are now; in the city.
Croydon already has a 'spare' capacity (empty office space) for about 5000 jobs; if ever built, the Stanhope Schroeder project would open up for at least another 5000. If this tower were ever to come into being, it'll offer jobs for another 10000? Does anybody honestly think that 20000 office jobs are going to come to Croydon when service-industries everywhere are in a decline that's going to last for years?
So; if planning permission is granted, where is the developer going to get his necessary investment from? All that's going to happen is a site clearance, the putting up of fencing and the whole area, from the station down to the Morland Road roundabout, left looking like a third-world war zone. All will not be lost, though; the developer will have a land asset with planning permission (worth a lot more than a land asset without).
Ambition is all very well, but it's much more effective it's founded in reality and is recognisably achievable. I don't think this ambition is.”

“What a stupid idea - that means since we are governed locally and natioanlly by parties that say one thing and do another - prepare yourselves for a 54 storey building”

“In reply to Urbanedout, I believe that Croydon does need an ambitious and visionary development such as the one proposed by Menta. When my grandparents moved to the Borough during the war, Croydon was future thinking, was modernist, was proud. It did have a common identity and also shared a vision of what the future might be like. However, since the 70s we have lost such ambition and dreams and we have become a down at heel Borough and the butt of many jokes.

The regeneration would not cause as much chaos as one might initially think, mainly due to the fact that the project will be piecemeal. One component part being built at a time. Much in the same way as when Altitude 25 was built, those who use the roads locally were not subject to delays because the build was carefully thought through.

Interestingly, at the recent Labour Council meeting at Oval Primary, MP Gavin Barwell commented that traffic and congestion in the area is an issue that could easily be solved at Council level. I would tend to agree.

You talk of dreams. When World renowned architect Will Alsop consulted Croydon for his dreams of the Borough being The Third City he quoted W.B. Yeats: "In dreams begin responsibilities". Dreams and a real vision for the Borough are vital in propelling us into the 21st Century. I also believe that Menta (Having worked with Croydon for many years) have invested a huge responsibility in making such dreams become a reality.

I share your fears that if the development is not passed by Planning Committee, then we will be left with another derelict site. I also would agree also that the Council should learn from the starts and stops of recent years.

We could procrastinate for a further decade or two or grasp this real opportunity to make Croydon happen. The fears you have of the Stanhope Schroeder site are shared by many local residents. But equally, residents also feel that if a landmark regeneration is passed for East Croydon, then the development on the other side of the tracks might be influenced to raise its bar in terms of aesthetic. In other words, having a knock on effect for the better of Croydon.

We have settled for second best for far too long. Now is the time for Croydon to realise its dreams, realise is vision, realise its potential. Croydon shall not be Dull.

For a balanced view of the benefits of the scheme visit the website below

http://tinyurl.com/6au9ama”

“Even and apart from the traffic considerations, the last thing that Croydon needs is yet another over ambitious top-end building project. If it is approved and building does go ahead, the consequent chaos in the surrounding area will be bad enough; if building doesn't begin then we're left with yet another derelict site awaiting the investment to catch with the developers' dreams.
Haven't we got enough of these already? Is work ever going to begin on any of the long awaited Stanhope Schroeder development behind East Croydon station? Is work ever going to finish on 'the roundabout tower' in St James Road? Are tenants are ever going to populate the luxury development behind the Fairfield?
Plans always appear impressive, and they can make our council look forward thinking and imaginative, but if nothing comes to fruition and real investment can't be found, the blight of decay and deterioration continues. Haven't the council planners learned anything from the starts and stops of recent years? Where is the fabulous Allder's Mall and St George's Walk development that was supposed to herald in this decade? Grandiose schemes that come to nothing continue to make Croydon the joke of the South East.
What hope for real regeneration when our business rates force high street closures and the consequent loss of jobs the inevitable relocation of businesses means? How attractive to visitors and incoming shoppers are our derelict office buildings and boarded up high streets?
What about some real imagination for a change? How about the council releasing some of its land to housing co-operatives, encouraging first-time buyers with council mortgages? What about offering two or three year zero-business-rates to entrepreneurial start ups in the borough? How about considering 'frozen' development land for temporary markets, or temporary leisure use?
What about ending all of this stagnation with some really revolutionary ideas, and not just giving in to the latest brainchild of a city architect?”

“jd you must be related to LAFANTASY or you lack or choose not to use powers of observation.
Bromley is a pleasant experience,Sutton is very much like Croydon was 25 years ago.
I much prefer Cobham for carefree shopping and an escape from the cloned high streets.”

“Well, Anne that is the benefit of public transport you see, you haven't got all the worry of where to park or anything in bromley, bus stops right in the high street, right opposite bromley south train station too. And you don't get people fighting in the streets at bromley, maybe because the police station is also in the high street. I never see gangs of youths hanging about in bromley high street.”

“@Swordtail – sounds like some kind of Dickensian vision! I must say it sounds like you've been to a different place. As far as I can see, shoppers look about equally cheerful in both places. I suspect you're imagining everything else.

@minniemoose – I think whether or not you want to live high and urban, or out in the country with open space largely depends on personal taste, not money. The most expensive piece of residential property ever sold in the UK was a flat.

@mirrymir84 – This is so true, this should be something a wider group of people have a say in. It affects far, far more people than live immediately adjacent to it.”